Curse

moriz · Jan 29, 2009, 03:55 PM // 15:55

cleave+body blow does not do deep wound, unless you have a source of cracked armor, which by itself needs you to dedicate a skillslot somewhere. the better combo is probably dismember->bodyblow, which gives you the deep wound and a big damage hit.

and as for faraaz, never listen to him. he's just incapable of playing a warrior, so he embraces the assassin because they are simpler to play. warriors work just about everywhere.

blue.rellik · Jan 29, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vir Leto

Again, please read Tyrael's post he explains the adren very well. Cleave doesn't gimp it at all.

Whenever you use an adrenaline skill, one strike of adrenaline is taken off from all adrenaline skills you have. It's given back back when you hit again

In this case you use Cleave, one is taken away and then given back, which means that all other adrenaline skills didn't increase at all. Because Cleave is spammable, it means that you're constantly doing that

And that is why it gimps your adrenaline.

Quote:

Eviscerate + Body Blow this is a combo? .. roflmao ... keep them coming mate I must admit this stupid statements make a work day go so much faster

))) Body Blow doesn't do deep wound because of Eviscerate, that is not a combo.
I already told you you can get body blow with cleave too, they do not rule out eachother.

You want to know why Cleave+ Dismember is bad? One skill only does damage and the other only does deep wound. Dismember is useless on the same target meaning that you're either doing to run around and put deep wound on multiple targets (which is lol and just plain idiotic) or you're just going to spam Cleave (which gimps your other adrenaline skills)

Eviscerate + Body Blow has the benefit of having +damage, it's never a waste to eviscerate someone with deep wound because you at least have +damage.

lol @ Body Blow + Cleave. Higher DPS sure but much more conditional DPS....and still gimps your adrenaline since spamming cleave means you body blow less.

Basic Adrenaline 101

qvtkc · Jan 29, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vir Leto

Ok, i'll go along with this for the sake of the discussion.

What adren skill would you put on that empty skill slot in addition to Eviscerate to outdamage Cleave + dismember and have the versatility of deep wounding faster?

Usually Whirlwind Attack. It would be lunacy to not have it.

Tyla · Jan 29, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

They're kinda sorta good in PvP. That's about it. They're useless in PvE.

Please can you elaborate on that, or are you still that bad? Dragon Slash fuels the hell out of a number of skills (Whirlwind Attack being buffable over the limits > Death Blossom), Power Attack spammage outclasses Critical Scythe, etcetera.

mrvrod · Jan 29, 2009, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I think this thread has stopped helping the op, and become a 'my skillz beat ur skillz' match.

fatelord · Jan 29, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I notice this is a trend in this forum ...the people here are seriously damaged human beings that thrive on insulting others ......lol at gamefaqs they referred me to this site for help but warned me of its inhabitants ...there are some occasional nice people here and there though .

Tyla · Jan 29, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatelord

I notice this is a trend in this forum ...the people here are seriously damaged human beings that thrive on insulting others ......lol at gamefaqs they referred me to this site for help but warned me of its inhabitants ...there are some occasional nice people here and there though .

That's what you see on the forum of a virtually dead game.

faraaz · Jan 29, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Please can you elaborate on that, or are you still that bad? Dragon Slash fuels the hell out of a number of skills (Whirlwind Attack being buffable over the limits > Death Blossom), Power Attack spammage outclasses Critical Scythe, etcetera.

I'd elaborate, but you are clearly in denial over the superiority of Sins vs. Warriors, so I'll just leave it be.

If you really want an elaboration, refer my posts in this thread

Vir Leto · Jan 29, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Whenever you use an adrenaline skill, one strike of adrenaline is taken off from all adrenaline skills you have. It's given back back when you hit again

In this case you use Cleave, one is taken away and then given back, which means that all other adrenaline skills didn't increase at all. Because Cleave is spammable, it means that you're constantly doing that

And that is why it gimps your adrenaline.

You want to know why Cleave+ Dismember is bad? One skill only does damage and the other only does deep wound. Dismember is useless on the same target meaning that you're either doing to run around and put deep wound on multiple targets (which is lol and just plain idiotic) or you're just going to spam Cleave (which gimps your other adrenaline skills)

Eviscerate + Body Blow has the benefit of having +damage, it's never a waste to eviscerate someone with deep wound because you at least have +damage.

lol @ Body Blow + Cleave. Higher DPS sure but much more conditional DPS....and still gimps your adrenaline since spamming cleave means you body blow less.

Basic Adrenaline 101

Again I don't understand what you want to tell me, your whole build revolves around Evis + body and that's all, only 2 attack skills? Evis doesn't provide cracked armor either. Evis takes too long too recharge when in PVE ,mobs blow up too easy and too fast.
For the sake of letting this go I will stop arguing. If you undersood what me and Tyreal said, ok. I understood what you said too and I think everyone has a point, just in a different context.

Thanks for the argument it was entertaining.

Tyla · Jan 29, 2009, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

I'd elaborate, but you are clearly in denial over the superiority of Sins vs. Warriors, so I'll just leave it be.

If you really want an elaboration, refer my posts in this
thread

Oh, the points I thoroughly replied and argued against and still await a reply back? Surely you are the one "in denal" here. Same can be said about Moriz' post. Sins can't knock down on an AoE radius better than a Warrior can. A team buffed so much makes Whirlwind Attack/D-Slash > MS/DB while not having the cons of MS, Power Attack + Strength outweighs CritStrikes when spammed. The main advantage is that you can use Shadow Form and be ractically immune to conditions.

Bobby2 · Jan 29, 2009, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Oh Eviscerate + Body Blow > Dismember + Cleave in terms of damage AND deep wound spreading

Hmm, not in my experience

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

In this case you use Cleave, one is taken away and then given back, which means that all other adrenaline skills didn't increase at all. Because Cleave is spammable, it means that you're constantly doing that

[dark fury], [for great justice]

You don't get just 1 hit back. I never felt like I'm 'raping' my adrenaline pool

Then again, it's been a long time. [primal rage] ftw.

Whenitrainsitpours · Jan 29, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by imnotyourmother

I totally agree. War is THEE and I mean THEE most useless toon in all of GW Period!

I have played monks - 55 and 600, ele's and derv's and now even a touch ranger!

Of all of these, Touch Rangers are by far the funnest to play if you like the in-your-face of a warier.

The ranger has 70 armor as its max but there are skills and runes to up your armor..get this to over 110. how STUIPD is this that the ranger with Necro skills is BETTER Wayyyyy better than a war.

Someone said kd the foe GET REAL. my vampiric bite and Vampiric touch do 71 damage ALL OF THE TIME. I enfeeble them witch causes WEAKNESS for 9 seconds and recharges in 8 seconds making it SPAMMABLE so the foe's attributes that I am fighting - and those Near it - are at 1. The weapons do NOTHING, the skills do NOTHING and I MASH them for 71 damage every single second. Oh if they poison me I just use Plague Touch and they get it. You can even make yourself be set on fire and then transfer that contition to the foe for 25 Seconds???? You ever seen an ice ele die with fire on them for 20 seconds.. FORGETABOUTIT

Also Energy? Not a problem with the Touch Ranger as my energy is 62. Offering of blood is +18 energy ever 20 seconds or so + there is an energy skill that will give you +3 energy for a period of like 12 seconds where by you can smash Vampiric touch and Vampiric Bite!.

War's are just plain stupid and there is only one Mission in ALL of prophecies that requires War's in the party - Ring of Fire.

So Stop complaining and GO and make a TOUCH RANGER! After all you have 4 Character slots

TROLL FTW.

Oh and Weakness doesn't reduce attributes to 1. It reduces attributes BY 1.

/Facepalm x 100 = 100x Facepalms

blue.rellik · Jan 30, 2009, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vir Leto

Again I don't understand what you want to tell me, your whole build revolves around Evis + body and that's all, only 2 attack skills? Evis doesn't provide cracked armor either. Evis takes too long too recharge when in PVE ,mobs blow up too easy and too fast.
For the sake of letting this go I will stop arguing. If you undersood what me and Tyreal said, ok. I understood what you said too and I think everyone has a point, just in a different context.

Thanks for the argument it was entertaining.

/facepalm

Your attempt to try and settle this and say 'we both have points' is complete and utter fail

As I said in another post here, raedin iz hard. I never once mentioned Cleave in my original post in this thread, Tyreal did. I was originally talking about Eviscerate and Triple Chop and why 3Chop is utterly terrible (which you have not refuted at all other than saying 'that's your opinion')

Also

[weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor]

And

[Dark Fury]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Hmm, not in my experience

[weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor]

Quote:

[dark fury], [for great justice]

You don't get just 1 hit back. I never felt like I'm 'raping' my adrenaline pool

Then again, it's been a long time. [primal rage] ftw.

/facepalm

Circular arguements are circular. Guess what happens when I bring a orders hero with a eviscerate bar?

Bobby2 · Jan 30, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

/facepalm

Circular arguements are circular. Guess what happens when I bring a orders hero with a eviscerate bar?

Dude, chill.

The whole world isn't out to prove you wrong (at least I'm not).

Anyways to answer your question: I think one would get out [eviscerate][body blow] about half as much as [dismember][cleave].

[dark fury] doesn't change the equation; I brought it up only cause you said one only gets 1 hit back per strike.

Spike Stritter · Jan 30, 2009, 05:41 AM // 05:41

[Peace and Harmony]

Please????????????

faraaz · Jan 30, 2009, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Oh, the points I thoroughly replied and argued against and still await a reply back? Surely you are the one "in denal" here. Same can be said about Moriz' post. Sins can't knock down on an AoE radius better than a Warrior can. A team buffed so much makes Whirlwind Attack/D-Slash > MS/DB while not having the cons of MS, Power Attack + Strength outweighs CritStrikes when spammed. The main advantage is that you can use Shadow Form and be ractically immune to conditions.

1. I didnt respond because you are the typical TAM Bot...in love with warriors and "physicals > all lololol" so there's no point arguing with idiots. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

2. Sin's kill in 1/10th of the time Warriors do, so they dont need effing AoE knockdown. And you never GET AoE aggro in a nice tight adjacent circle to knockdown in realistic situations anyway because melee in HM is always kiting your backline.

3. D-Slash is SINGLE TARGET. I repeat, D-SLASH IS SINGLE TARGET. One more time, since you didnt get it the other times ppl mentioned it...D-SLASH is single target mr. i cant read.

4. You think Power Attack + Strength outweighs Crit. Strikes. You sir, are wrong. You will, on average, do more damage with a scythe on a buffed sin with max crit strikes than you will on a Warrior with max strength. If you disagree, I have nothing more to say to you because this is rock solid fact.

There, I fed the trolls.

Let the flaming commence.

Mesmer in Need · Jan 30, 2009, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

1. I didnt respond because you are the typical TAM Bot...in love with warriors and "physicals > all lololol" so there's no point arguing with idiots. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Physicals are the strongest damage dealers in the game, excluding the brokneness of cry and roj. If you believe that they aren't then you should convince all the gvg and ha teams to ditch their wars and dervs and assassins for eles. Btw tyla is no longer in [TAM] because he is bad.

Quote:

2. Sin's kill in 1/10th of the time Warriors do, so they dont need effing AoE knockdown. And you never GET AoE aggro in a nice tight adjacent circle to knockdown in realistic situations anyway because melee in HM is always kiting your backline.

1/10? I'd like to see your calculations. Not all mobs in pve die instantly, you will need a frontliner to bunch them up and hold them until they do. KD locking with Earthshaker ensures that less of them can escape.

Quote:

3. D-Slash is SINGLE TARGET. I repeat, D-SLASH IS SINGLE TARGET. One more time, since you didnt get it the other times ppl mentioned it...D-SLASH is single target mr. i cant read.

WHIRLWIND ATTACK IS AOE. I repeat, CRUDE SWING IS AOE. SPLINTER WEAPON (that you get from your oh so nice support char) is aoe. Must i go on?

Quote:

4. You think Power Attack + Strength outweighs Crit. Strikes. You sir, are wrong. You will, on average, do more damage with a scythe on a buffed sin with max crit strikes than you will on a Warrior with max strength. If you disagree, I have nothing more to say to you because this is rock solid fact.

Unless you have calculations to show me, this is a load.

Quote:

There, I fed the trolls.

OHM NOM NOM

Vir Leto · Jan 30, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

/facepalm

Your attempt to try and settle this and say 'we both have points' is complete and utter fail

As I said in another post here, raedin iz hard. I never once mentioned Cleave in my original post in this thread, Tyreal did. I was originally talking about Eviscerate and Triple Chop and why 3Chop is utterly terrible (which you have not refuted at all other than saying 'that's your opinion')

Also

[weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor]

And

[Dark Fury]

[weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor][weaken armor]

/facepalm

Circular arguements are circular. Guess what happens when I bring a orders hero with a eviscerate bar?

Chill dude it's an argument not a war.
I didn't say it is only my oppinion on 3chop, i forwarded you too alot of sources in which 3chop was praised by alot of experienced players, accept it or not, it is your choice.

I can start posting alot of skills too, but we'll go in a nice circle, the thing is that the argument was fun at the begining, now your getting all to agresive and are taking it way to personal for a discussion.

I've made my case, if you want to listen to it ok, if not still ok, I couldn't care less how you play your Warr.

xDusT II · Jan 30, 2009, 08:41 AM // 08:41

What a joke of a thread. OP go to Marty's stickied thread and ignore 90% of everything said here.

PVEISSRSBSNS

Cebe · Jan 30, 2009, 10:03 AM // 10:03

The quality of this thread has fallen below minimum standards.

Thread will now self destruct...